Talk:Mărțișor

"Ancient" Romanian custom

This item is clearly written with Romanian bias. The sources are all written by Romanian people so naturally the article will discredit the Bulgarian Heritage. Please Insert more articles from Bulgarian and International historians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.210.147.198 (talk) 07:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Firstly I highly respect Romanian people, but could you please remember that the WORD, the term Romania is born in the late 19th century. Also that ROmania as a country was founded in 1878 (AD that is :-)). Before that neither a country nor a nation called Romania existed. So how come it is possible that there is an "ancient" Romanian tradition since no Romanian nation and county existed before 1878. May I remind that naming the newborn state "The Roman Empire" - yes indeed Romania is exactly the word for The Roman Empire - does NOT make it neither Roman, nor an empire.

Once again let me express my greatest respect towards all Romanians, but I simply get annoyed when aggressive nationalism bends facts. We don`t need that anymore, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.91.45.231 (talk) 13:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC) If what you say should be universally accepted then the term Italian should not be used referring to the Italian territories before 1861. Don't really understand what exactly is your problem... Stick to the facts! Romanian people existed long before 1878. There are lots of documents attesting this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.92.3.156 (talk) 17:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

check the article on Wallachia, one of the 3 principalities which joined in order to form modern Romania, one of them was called in the local language Țara Românească (standing for Romanian Land), so yes the termn Romania and Romanian are much older than 1878. 1878 was just the year when it regained the independence from the Ottoman Empire, see Romanian War of Independence. (Nicubunu (talk) 09:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC))

Just a bit of linguistical information: Mărţişor is not derived from Martie, but rather from "Marţ" <- Latin "Martius". In fact, the old term for the month of March was "Mărţişor". The new one, (if you can call a 1000 years old new :) "Martie" is derived from a Orthodox source. (from Slavic, which in turn was from Greek). Bogdan | Talk 19:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

At the 'External Links' section, change the error link http://social.moldova.org/articole/eng/357/ with the coorrect one:

http://www.moldova.org/pagini/eng/59/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.84.203 (talk • contribs)

FYI: this was in the article, can someone who knows vietnamese make a corresponding article?

(vietnamese )

Mărţişor( mùng 1 tháng 3 ) lễ hội truyền thống của người dân Rumani đón mùa xuân về . Mărţişor không những biểu tượng cho mùa xuân thay áo mới với trăm hoa đua nở đâm chồi, với không khí vui vẻ hạnh phúc , mà còn biểu tượng cho cái thiện và cái ác, cái thiện luôn chiến thắng và cái ác bi đấy lùi. Vào dịp lễ này phái nữ nhận được những món quà xinh xắn có tên gọi mărţişoare (theo tiếng Rumani Mărţişor có nghĩa tháng 3 nhỏ xinh ). Thường thì quà Martisor là đồ trang sức hoặc những món đồ trang trí nhỏ nhắn như bông hoa ,con vật hay một trái tim, những món quà đó đều được thắt một chiếc nơ tết bằng những sợi chỉ màu đỏ và trắng biểu tượng cho sự may mắn và an lành. Hai màu đó trắng cũng là biểu tượng của hai mùa xuân và đông, trong khi mầu đỏ biểu tượng cho mùa xuân tươi đẹp đang đến, thì mùa trắng là biểu tượng của mùa đông lạnh giá đã qua. Mărţişor còn mang ý nghĩa sự tái sinh của thiên nhiên. Mùa xuân, cỏ cây hoa lá đâm chồi nảy lộc, có một loài hoa mang tên Ghiocei (Hoa chuông ), cũng được coi là loài hoa biểu tượng của mùa xuân, ở Rumani vào ngày lễ Mărţişor người ta cũng thường tặng cho nhau những bó hoa Ghiocei.

Lịch sử ngày lễ Mărţişor: Không rõ từ khi nào thì người ta kỷ niệm ngày lễ này nhưng có thể cho rằng nó bắt nguồn từ thời La mã cổ đại, khi đó người Ki-tô giáo lấy ngày mùng 1 tháng 3 là ngày đầu tiên của năm. Nguồn gốc của lễ hội này đồng thời cũng được ghi nhận thông qua lễ hội tưởng nhớ thần Marte (thần Chiến tranh ) vị thần bảo vệ mùa màng và chống chiến tranh . Tương đồng với lễ kỷ niệm thần Marte thì ở vùng Tracia ( Rumani cổ) người ta cũng kỷ niệm thần Marsyas Silen , vào ngày này phụ nữ Daco thường đeo trên mình những đồng tiền hoặc những mảnh kim loại xâu bằng những sợi chỉ màu đỏ và trắng biểu tượng cho sự may mắn và một năm an lành —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthurian Legend (talk • contribs) 00:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Relation to Martenitsa

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA I cant believe it "the beautiful tradition in Moldova and Romania" HA-HA-HA dear friends its a BULGARIAN tradition,but you cant know everything!!!The tradition is from 681 A.D. when khan Asparuh win hands down in one battle versus Byzantine enemys,then he send a message with one eagle.He tie up the message with white thread,but the enemys forces wound the eagle and when the eagle arrive in the castle the thread is not only white,the half of this thread is a red from the eagles blood,and by this day every real BULGARIAN have a "martenitsa"(write on Cyrillic:"мартеница") to his hand for luck and health!!!

I wish you happy holiday and dont forget where are you come from ;)

P.S. Sorry if i have wrongs,my English is like your Bulgarian :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.220.223 (talk) 05:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint you, buddy. Martisor has been a Romanian tradition for over 8000 years. It's a fact! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.202.15 (talk) 08:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You are funny !!! .... martenitza is tradition maked from proto-Bulgarians, in Romania this is become from Avars Haganat ... because in this haganat living too many Bulgarians (from clan Ermi) .... this clan after demolish of avars haganat become in bulgaria.... see: khan Krum :) funny romanians :) hahaha

For your information... Mărţişor is an 8000 year old Romanian tradition. Martenitsa is an old Bulgarian tradition (you say from 681 AD). They are similar, yes, but not the same thing. Each article should remain as is and talk about the corresponding tradition. Danielgrad (talk) 11:02, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You so funny, before 8000 years :)..... in this period 6000 years before Christ the humans know only blue ink :)!!!!!! (martenitca is maked from red ink ) and in this period there is not Romanian country :) ha-ha-ha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ermi.clan (talk • contribs) 11:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

The oldest proof for this tradition was found in Schela Clacovie, Mehedinţi, a 10,000 years old human settlement Danielgrad (talk) 11:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

and now 10000 years :) , !!!! are u listen what u saying?? the fabric will be rotten !!! you talk nonsense !! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ermi.clan (talk • contribs) 11:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

See ro:Mărţişor, ro:Schela Cladovei, Mehedinţi and http://www.donsmaps.com/schela.html for references. Do you have any references? Danielgrad (talk) 11:33, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

i dont see any martisor on photos :) where is it??tell me ....  ?!?!? if u show me photo of skeleton remake with martisor on it ,i will believe you  :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ermi.clan (talk • contribs) 11:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You won't see skeletons wearing them, because they were not worn back then. they were rocks painted in white and red used in rituals of spring and renewal. These colors were combined with the later tradition of threads tied to a coin, replacing the black and white wool threads with red and white threads.

As for no Romanian country in 6000 BC... The name Romania is derived from the Roman Empire and it's called that way from the Roman conquer of Dacia (old name of current Romania). In their second attempt, romans conquered Dacia and annexed it to their empire. They only stayed here for less than 200 years, but this was enough to change the name of the country and to influence the language to the point where now it's the closest existing language to old Latin. But the people of Dacia occupied the land long before this. Romanian paleolithic era is dated to 700,000 BC. The earliest occupants of current Bulgarian territory are the Hamangia culture and the Vinča culture, which are dated to around 6000-3000 BC. Danielgrad (talk) 12:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You say its a thracian tradition. We bulgarians inheritted thracians - therefore case closed. Tangra680 (talk) 15:48, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

No, you inherited Romanians. Case closed. -- Heron —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.24.190 (talk) 16:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You're just a complexed nationalist hillbilly, do you realise it ? I guess not. Tangra680 (talk) 17:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Indigenous Thracian and Daco-Getic population, lived on the territory of modern Bulgaria before the Slavic invasion, according to the History of Bulgaria article. So yes, you (as most of this part of Europe) inherited Thracians. You also inherited Daco-Gets (the old Romanians) and Slavs. So the above comment (about inheriting Romanians) is also partly correct. But the Mărţişor and Martenitsa traditions, although they have the same roots (Romanians living on Bulgarian territory brought Mărţişor and other traditions), they have evolved in parallel after that and have become distinct in some ways. They are currently different traditions and there is no point in saying that one stole from the other. It's not at all similar to the way we now borrow Valentine's Day from Americans like it is and with the conscious purpose of copying them. It's just a natural cross-influence of neighboring countries. Danielgrad (talk) 12:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

PS: It should be noted, that although Bulgarians inherited Daco-Gets, their language was extinct by the time the Slavs came, so Slavic influence is way stronger than Daco-Getic influence. Language is 99.99% Slavic, and only things like archaic traditions are more easily traced back to that time. Danielgrad (talk) 12:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Argue this if you want, but keep the edits to the article NPOV or watch them get reverted. Currently both the Romanian and Bulgarian perspectives are presented in the article and I hope this doesn't change again. 198.169.65.1 (talk) 19:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Sources

I don't want to edit the article, but I just want to point out that source 2 is not a serious source to prove anything. Just see how it starts: " "Bulgarii nu se potolesc. Dupa ce, in 2006, Hristo Stoicikov, antrenorul de atunci al echipei nationale de fotbal..." It's blind Romanian nationalism to make articles based on such sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.218.54.44 (talk) 19:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Could someone say how to pronounce this? —ScouterSig 17:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

If you speak fluent American English, I can give you a spelling that will make you automatically say it right: mert-see-shore

Any relation to Vesta?

Has anyone noticed yet that the Sacred Fire of the Vestal Virgins of Rome was extinguished and relit on March 1st every year? Seems like a big coincidence to me.

Shouldn't the article be written with the Romanian orthography?

In Romanian they use ș (with a comma and not a cedilla). The s cedilla is a sign in Turkish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.106.95.150 (talk) 00:12, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Spamola

This article is riddled with spamlinks and completely unreliable links (blogs, forums etc.), most of which are provided as "references" (crestinortodox.ro, worldofmoldova, dacii.ro, and even a goddamn web archive from some web thread!). In fact, the only source that would have any kind of (bordeline) credibility and comply with our content policies is Libertatea, a tabloid. The format is also atrocious.

It is frankly unbelievable that someone hasn't yet been able to come up with content based on reliable scholarly sources, plenty of which exist, and many of which, I'd wager, are freely available for viewing on the internet. I mean, come on. Dahn (talk) 13:54, 1 May 2010 (UTC)