Talk:Culture war

Introduction is crap

What the hell is "The culture war (or culture wars) in American usage is a political conflict based on different idealized cultural values" meant to mean? It could be anything. At least include a decent definition of the article's bloody topic! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.132.210.206 (talk) 15:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Need to discuss conflict more between "liberals" & "conservatives"

Aren't the culture wars the endless battle between secular liberals and evangelical Christian conservatives over social issues? If so, shouldn't the article discuss this in more detail instead of essay-style speculation--Robert Merkel — Preceding undated comment added 11:15, 17 February 2003 (UTC)

If you want to throw that in there, I see no reason why not. 65.58.161.102 20:19 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)

It's more complex then that. I see the culture war as less between liberals and conservatives as between age groups. My family is fairly liberal, but in some ways could be said to be on the conservative side of the culture war. Somebody Else's Problem^Cat_Dog(aka Alethiophile) 00:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

It is extremely complex to be sure...you've got religious liberals and conservatives, who are generally (but not always) aligned with their liberal and conservative political counterparts. Then you have atheists, libertarians, people who are socially conservative and fiscally liberal (and vice versa), to just name a few of the complications. I don't think age is so much of an issue, however - if anything the younger "culture war" generation is more polarized than the other generations, and has a good amount of support from both sides of the "war". Of course, everything I just stated is unsourced, but maybe it'll give someone a jumping-off point for some discussion about content for the article. --Tim4christ17 ^talk 11:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

And then you have the centralists like myself, who's rallying cry is 'compromise' and 'listen to the silent majority'. Anyway, it's the older people who are polarized: It occurred in the absence of the internet. But the internet allows us to talk and, more importantly, compromise. The baby boomers are the ones who are polarized04:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.187.32 (talk)

Future - generational issues

Unless this work is science fiction, how can it discuss events that have not yet occurred? 2005? -- Zoe — Preceding undated comment added 02:45, 20 April 2003 (UTC)

Historical eras, like generations, have an average length of around 22 years. The 2005 year is listed because the Culture Wars era would end then if it were of average length. 67.74.95.50 (talk) 00:19, 15 May 2003 (UTC)

In the 20:57, 14 Sep 2004 version, this caught my eye: "The Boom Generation, who had control of the culture at the beginning of the era, came under attack from their next juniors, Generation X, who had a distinctive anti-Boom crossculture. These two generations are like oil and water: aggressive moralizers on one side, neo-hedonists on the other." This reads as if the boomers are the moralizers; however, I interpret it the opposite, so I changed it. Let's develop this by citing some sources... <>< tbc — Preceding undated comment added 15:20, 12 October 2004 (UTC)

I have removed the following:

Though society had been turning away from tradition and the transcendent for centuries, technology had by this time enabled the decoupling of many biological functions from their respective social functions — sex from its social function of producing the next generation, etc.

The Boom Generation, who had control of the culture at the beginning of the era, came under attack from their next juniors, Generation X, who had a distinctive anti-Boom crossculture. These two generations are like oil and water: the early generation was defined by their neo-hedonism, while their disillusioned children, having lived through the rise of the AIDS epidemic and their own parents' broken marriages, craved restored boundaries on behavior and a return to traditional morality. In schematic summary:

• The Silent Generation was entering elderhood.
• The Baby boomers were entering midlife.
• Generation X was entering rising adulthood, looking at a Boom-built culture in need of the one thing missing at Woodstock: ice-water realism.
• Generation Y was entering childhood.

It was unsourced original research and analysis.

Meelar (talk) 19:11, 30 November 2004 (UTC)

I recognize this. It comes from Strauss & Howe - probably their book The Fourth Turning. While I'm not sure of the quote, this is certainly what's in their books. 50.96.27.108 (talk) 02:00, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I changed the dating from the 1980's to the 1960's

here is why. The culture war in America began with the "counter-culture revolution" in the 1960's. The dramatic revolution from traditional views of authority, sexuality, family, and American culture in general began in 60's - not the 80's. We saw the rise of the Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, Americans for Life, Focus on the Family as a response to what happened in the 1960's. The leaders of these movements all point back to the "counter-culture revolution" of the 1960's as a justification for organizing in the 1970's and 80's. The culture war was started by the secular left in the 60's. The religious right did not begin an effective response until the late 70's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.160.116.54 (talk) 19:15, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Babble. The "Culture War" is simply a label (it's not literally a war after all). The label applies to social phenomena that inspired the label. The first application of the label is the sensible starting point: from that point one may assess the cultural situation that evoked the label. Then one can describe what the label means to its users. If focus is lost, one quickly winds up gabbling, and redefining the label to serve personal agendas does not help. --Wetman 19:25, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

The article simply isn't critical enough of anyone invoking the term. Unless you're literally fighting for your life, you're not in a war. Stop whining. --&rogyny — Preceding undated comment added 15:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

You're right. We need more pespectives on how the "culture war" is not really a war, and how the term is used in a very loaded way, almost exclusively by people who epsouse conservative values. I'm working on finding some sources.--Farbotron 22:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone may want to look into whether some of the recently deleted material from this article should be restored; I don't have time right now. I've worked on cleaning up the first three paragraphs, which had decently cited and relevant material; I think they are now quite good, but the rest of the article is almost a total loss. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:05, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

The section on 9-11 is especially aimless and confused. 68.110.199.122 23:05, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I would say the Culture War has been going on since at least the 1920s, as evidenced with things like Prohibition and the Scopes Monkey Trial, and probably well before that. The Republican slogan of the 1880s, that the Democrats stood for "Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion" could be seen as an appeal to Culture War-type sentiments. It went into remission during the Great Depression and World War II, but resurfaced sometime in the 50s (with the Red Scare and the Civil Rights Movement). 69.151.211.234 (talk) 16:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

There have been culture wars raging at different times, true enough. But the one which underlies the present-day extreme partisanship in the US, by virtue of its frequent reference to events, ideas, or frames of mind that come out of the 1960's, is little more than a latter-day hold-over of the culture war fought primarily amongst the two partisan extremes of the Baby Boomer generation, and which continues to be fought primarily amongst the members of that generation -- only now as members of that generation in positions of power and positions of authorities in the editing rooms of mass media outlets that determine which issues are to be given airing and focus. This was the battle that simmered in the 1970's (but still manifesting, such as in the split between pro- and anti-disco groups and the late 1970's backlash), and come back into full swing with the coming of age of the Boomers in the 1980's. Note, in particular, a large portion of the list of the main protagonists (or antagonists) in the article comprise died-in-the-wool Baby Boomers. In the articles linked above on the various generations, one of the attributes of Generation X is it disavowal of the Culture Wars -- a process that carried through more or less to completion with Generation Y (e.g. the reference of this generation sometimes as "post-racial", i.e. no longer stuck in the 1960's and its preoccupation with issues relating to race and no longer seeing everything through the filtered lens of that issue.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.27.190.56 (talk) 21:21, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Examples of current cultural warfare worldwide:

Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemns 'Magnificent Century', a historical soap opera described in this article as 'a titillating weekly series that exaggerates the romance, intrigue and sex life of Suleiman the Magnificent, a revered 16th century Ottoman leader. Hugely popular in Turkey and the Middle East, the show is broadcast in 43 countries and watched by 200 million people.'

"I'm condemning both the director of that series as well as the owner of the television station," Erdogan said in a bizarre speech at the opening of an airport in western Turkey last month. "We have already alerted authorities about this and we are still waiting for a judicial action." Whilst being evidently popular the series offends some socially conservative sensibilities enough to attract prime ministerial comment.

South Africa's President Jacob Zuma is quoted using culture as a rhetorical weapon, asserting 'traditional African values in defence of sexism according to this article: "Let us not be influenced by other cultures… Let us solve African problems the African way, not the white man’s way"

The term 'culture war' is a handy media label for something which is currently going on in the USA but beyond that it describes a wider phenomenon as this commentator puts it 'Culture wars, of course, are fought in every country' .

Normskiormski (talk) 09:54, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

References

United Kingdom "A 2021 report by King's College London..."

If this is going to be used as a source of information in the article, then the details – author(s), title etc. – need to be supplied.CWO (talk) 12:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I believe I found the correct one and added it. 23impartial (talk) 14:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)