Talk:John Maynard Keynes

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the John Maynard Keynes article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6: 3 months

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Politics of the United Kingdom High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Peerage and Baronetage / Politics and Government / Science and Academia / Core

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is listed on the project's core biographies page.

Philosophy: Philosophers / Contemporary Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Philosophers
	Contemporary philosophy

Politics Top‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

LGBTQ+ studies: Person

	LGBTQ portal This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles
	This article is supported by the LGBTQ+ Person task force.

Economics Top‑importance

	Business and economics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

England High‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sussex High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sussex, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sussex on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SussexWikipedia:WikiProject SussexTemplate:WikiProject SussexSussex-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

British Empire Low‑importance

	British Empire portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Empire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of British Empire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British EmpireWikipedia:WikiProject British EmpireTemplate:WikiProject British EmpireBritish Empire articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Finance & Investment Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finance & Investment, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Finance and Investment on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Finance & InvestmentWikipedia:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentTemplate:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentFinance & Investment articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

John Maynard Keynes was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 17, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
August 19, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed
August 26, 2024	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 21, 2017, and April 21, 2021.
Current status: Delisted good article

Archives

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4	Archive 5	Archive 6

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 4 sections are present.

Illuminus?

I have heard that Keynes was a member of the Illuminati. Should this be added to the article? 24.198.105.135 (talk) 02:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, because it is complete nonsense. The Illuminati is a crackpot conspiracy theory designed to separate gullible people from their money. See also Alex Jones#Website, own-brand and endorsed products. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While I largely agree with JMF, I'd be a little less emphatic. We could include the assertion if someone finds a high quality source to support it (e.g. a biography by a major publisher). It's accepted historical fact that there was an Illuminati back in the 18th century, on the surface at least it campaigned for reason & enlightenment values against religion and superstition. They publicly disbanded around 1785 but its not impossible they persisted in secret for some time after, maybe even to the early 20th century. Lord Keynes was certainly the type to join a secret society and his biographies record he was militantly atheist as a youth. Might be interesting to note that said belief didn't survive much contact with reality. While biographers find no evidence he ever gained personal faith, by the end of his life he fully agreed with his frenemie von Hayek that religion was on balance pro social and something to be cherished. These days, AFAIK every single top tier elite is onboard with the desirability to boost religion and re-enchant the world, at least here in the West. Sadly, they no longer have the ability to bring much influence to bear on global society, regardless of any clubbing together in secret societies. So different from Lord Keynes day - as he said to von Hayek shortly before he died, he could turn global opinion in a flash if he had to. Anyway, I thought this amusing to mention given JMF's earlier reply, as the town of milton keynes is perhaps the most concrete manifestation of recent elite attempts to re-enchant the world. A moderately knowledgeable person would have to take Denialism to a whole new level not to see that town's geometric layout, street names, and various esoteric statues and other architectural features as evidence of a secret society at work. Not sadly one that seems to be having any great supernatural effects, though rather charming things have happened while I've been visiting the place.FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well anyone persuaded by that flight of fantasy is very likely to believe that Keynes was not only a leading illuminatus but also a lizard from Arcturus in human form.

(For anyone wondering what Milton Keynes has to do with anything, see Milton Keynes#Name (nothing to do with Friedman), Milton Keynes #Grid roads and grid squares (the "strict Roman grid" lie), Central Milton Keynes#Astronomical alignment (the "modern Stonehenge" myth) and Keynes family#Places in England bearing the name Keynes (five). But never let facts get in the way of a good story.) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:06, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Old Discussions from Talk Page

This seems to be a widespread issue on Wikipedia.

The concern should be self-explanatory: inconvenient/anti-narrative discussions are hidden from public view and discussion, and relegation to the revision history - under the guise of keeping the talk page uncrowded/neatly organized, or under the guise of removing stuff that is labeled as "silly, conspiratorial, unfounded, politically incorrect, or "objectively false.""

While such arguments may have merit, I would suggest, imo, that most people can see the benefit of a readily accessible, complete and uncensored talk page.

I would suggest that this benefit outweighs the former arguments.

I would also suggest that that an obviously shortened and lacking talk page looks extremely fishy to a reasonable and questioning person.

Is there a reason or policy behind this, imo, recent trend towards shortened/censored talk pages? Sober Reasoning (talk) 01:43, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA concerns

After reviewing this article, I am concerned that this article no longer meets the good article criteria. Some of my concerns are listed below:

At over 12,000 words, WP:TOOBIG recommends that the article should probably be split. I agree with this, and I think some information should be moved to other articles or removed.
There is a lot of uncited prose.
The article relies upon many block quotes, and I think some of them can be removed or summarised.
Unreliable sources like Investopedia and mises.org are used as inline citations, and should be reevaluated.
"Cultural representations" is full of one-sentence paragraphs which should be merged.

Is anyone interested in fixing up this article, or should it go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 17:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the whole cultural representations section could be removed. Its pretty trivial if you ask me. Bonewah (talk) 18:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

John Maynard Keynes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:12, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article, at 12000 words, is considered WP:TOOBIG. There is a lot of uncited prose, and an overreliance on block quotes. Unreliable sources are used as intext citations and the "Cultural representations" section is full of one-sentence paragraphs. Z1720 (talk) 02:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delist: in addition to the issues outlined above, and live citation needed tags, there are other prose infelicities, and the overall structure is pretty unclear (perhaps related to the WP:TOOBIG issues identified above). UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:01, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No mention of Keynes pedophelia

Keynes really didn’t even try to hide this. This article details much of his sexual history, since he meticulously kept records, but doesn’t mention this particular https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/john-maynard-keynes-new-biography-reveals-shocking-details-about-the-economist-s-sex-life-10101971.html 76.113.149.140 (talk) 18:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]